denise: Image: Me, facing away from camera, on top of the Castel Sant'Angelo in Rome (Default)
Denise ([staff profile] denise) wrote in [site community profile] dw_biz2012-02-13 03:45 pm

feature design brainstorming: icon add-ons

We said last month that [staff profile] mark's next big project is going to be icon add-on packs to let people buy more icon slots if they want, and this week he and I have been brainstorming ideas to make it work in the quickest, easiest, and most usable fashion. This is what we're currently thinking the system will look like, for you guys to mull over and point out all the things we've no doubt forgotten to think about. ;)

Goal: To let people buy as many icon slots as they want (up to whatever limit we impose for overall performance reasons), as simply and easily as possible.



We started out with the idea that this should be something the user can decide (how many slots you want), not sold in pre-specified numbers of icon packs that stack on top of each other. We kicked around a few ideas for a while of how to make that work (such as paying per icon slot per month, etc), but everything we tried to come up with got really confusing very quickly: we would have had to track a lot of different things, and explaining pro-rating to people is really hard, and it would've been really hard to add more icons later if you decided you didn't have enough.

So, our current working theory: we will charge you up front for each icon slot you want to add, and paying for another icon slot will give you that slot permanently, for whenever you have a paid account. (We have a vague idea of what each slot will cost, but it's not set in stone yet, so I don't want to commit to anything; I'll use the variable $amount while I'm explaining, in order to avoid making any promises.) If your paid account expires, you'll go back to the number of icons a free account gets; if you renew your paid account, you'll go back up to the paid account icons + your add-ons.

It's probably easiest to talk through some practical examples of common scenarios, so everyone's on the same page: let's say that I have a premium paid account, so I have 250 icons. I want 270 icons. I pay $amount to permanently buy those 20 icons; my icon slots go from 250 to 270. In a year, my premium paid time is about to expire, so I renew it for another year; I only have to pay the $50 to renew the premium paid time, and my icon slots stays at 270, not the 250 a premium paid account usually gets, because I bought those 20 icons permanently.

Next year, my premium paid account expires (back down to 15 icons, curses!), and I'm kind of low on cash, so I decide to renew it as a regular paid account ($35 for the year; 100 icons), not a premium paid account. But! I previously bought those 20 extra icon slots. Those still exist, but they're applied to the paid account icon limit (100 icons), not the premium paid account icon limit (250 icons): I'd have the 100 icon slots a paid account usually gets, plus the 20 I permanently bought, for 120 icons.

After a few months, though, I decide I can't live with only 120 icons, and I decide to buy some more. I pay $amount to permanently buy another 50 icon slots. My new icon count is now 170: the 100 for a paid account, the 20 I previously bought, and the 50 I just bought.

When account renewal comes around, I decide I miss the premium paid account benefits, so I renew as premium paid ($50 for the year; 250 icons). I now have the 250 icon slots that come standard with a premium paid account, plus the 20 I bought a long time ago, plus the 50 I bought recently, for a total of 320 icons.

So, you're only buying the icon slots once, and they last forever -- but, you have to have a paid account to access them. (This is to avoid people buying just icon slots, which is bad for us from a business standpoint based on how we set our account limits. For an explanation of why you won't be able to just buy icons without a paid account, see two old mailing list messages I wrote back when we were in development: #1, which explains why you can't buy paid features a-la-carte, and #2, which specifically gets into icons.)

We'll be pricing icon slots based on the cost to support them over time, so you'd pay more up-front than you would in a yearly, expiring type deal. You'll never have to pay again, though, so it will be cheaper in the long run.

What if you want to switch to using a different account, though, the way we know roleplayers like to do? You'd be stuck paying the up-front cost over and over again for each account, which would not be very fair! So, instead we make it possible for you to switch icon slots from account to account.

Let's say I have two accounts, [profile] x and [profile] y. [profile] x is a premium paid account (250 icons) and I bought 50 extra icon slots for it over time (total of 300 icons). [profile] y is a paid account (100 icons). I decide I want to stop using [profile] x and switch to using [profile] y instead: I can go to the icon slot mover tool and say "switch my extra icon slots", and move the 50 extra slots from [profile] x to [profile] y. Now [profile] x has 250 icon slots (the standard with the premium paid account), and [profile] y has 150 icon slots (the standard 100 with the paid account + my 50 extra slots that I bought).

(We may charge a small amount to move icon slots from one account to another, especially if it's been a while since you bought them, like the way we charge for a rename token. But we haven't decided that yet; it will depend on what the numbers look like when we diagram the costs of all this out more fully.)

There will be a limit on how many slots you can buy at first -- this is because the system isn't very optimized for large numbers of icons, either for resource usage or for the user interface of displaying and selecting large numbers of icons. (We can fix that over time, and we will! But that will take time, and we'd rather release the feature with a lower limit now than wait. Whatever limit we pick when we release it will almost certainly be raised later once we can do the work.) It's also possible that we might have two limits, and charge $amount for each slot up to limit #1, and $amount*2 for each slot from limit #1 to limit #2, but that, too, will be up in the air until we can really plot out the technical and business details of this way of doing things.

So, if this is all still up in the air, why am I posting about it now? Simple: We know that we can't know everything about how people use their accounts and how people want to use their icons. So, consider this the open invitation to pick holes in this plan: what kind of usage are we forgetting to think about/account for? What problems do you see?

(Also, because I know a lot of people are really sweet about worrying what this will mean for us-as-a-business: we already did all the back-of-the-envelope feasability tests, and this should remain feasable over time. We're gambling that the cost of disk space, bandwidth, and processor power will continue to go down over time the way it's been going, historically, so the pay-once model for icons should work fine for us -- and because it will be tied to paid accounts we won't be promising future services without any additional income the way we would for seed accounts.)
mark: A photo of Mark kneeling on top of the Taal Volcano in the Philippines. It was a long hike. (Default)

[staff profile] mark 2012-02-13 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
278 00
91 10
56 20
57 30
56 40
50 50
37 60
46 70
36 80
40 90
35 100
26 110
34 120
34 130
26 140
22 150
17 160
17 170
15 180
29 190
19 200
12 210
6 220
10 230
22 240
14 250


So, 14 seed accounts have 250 active userpics. 22 more have 240+, 10 have 230+, etc etc.
februaryfour: (Default)

[personal profile] februaryfour 2012-02-14 06:10 am (UTC)(link)
*is a 10-or-fewer* ^_^ I really have no interest in all those icons. I know I'm definitely on the "subsidizing others" end of the icon spectrum. I make up for it in mobile features and tracking, though, and I live for the day embedding is a cut-some-code-and-paste-into-website-html!
sophie: A cartoon-like representation of a girl standing on a hill, with brown hair, blue eyes, a flowery top, and blue skirt. ☀ (Default)

[personal profile] sophie 2012-02-14 05:19 am (UTC)(link)
If I'm understanding right, that last sentence can basically be reparsed as "14 seed accounts have 250 active userpics, 22 accounts have 240-249 userpics, 10 have 230-239 userpics, etc etc.", right?

In which case, 278 seed accounts have 0-9 userpics. That actually surprises me (even though I'm actually one of the 278); I had figured most people would be using a ton more.

Am I misunderstanding, or do I have that right?

Edit: Assuming that this is correct, I've made some calculations and calculated estimated values for the percentage of the icon pool each group is taking up assuming that each user in a group is using the median number in their group (so, for example, a user in the 0-9 group is assumed to be using 4.5 icons):

Number of userpics per userEstimated percentage (estimated total icons)
0-91.6% (1251 icons)
10-191.7% (1319.5 icons)
20-291.7% (1372 icons)
30-392.5% (1966.5 icons)
40-493.1% (2492 icons)
50-593.4% (2725 icons)
60-693.0% (2386.5 icons)
70-794.3% (3427 icons)
80-893.8% (3042 icons)
90-994.8% (3780 icons)
100-1094.6% (3657.5 icons)
110-1193.7% (2977 icons)
120-1295.3% (4233 icons)
130-1395.7% (4573 icons)
140-1494.7% (3757 icons)
150-1594.3% (3399 icons)
160-1693.5% (2796.5 icons)
170-1793.7% (2966.5 icons)
180-1893.5% (2767.5 icons)
190-1997.1% (5640.5 icons)
200-2094.9% (3885.5 icons)
210-2193.2% (2574 icons)
220-2291.7% (1347 icons)
230-2392.9% (2345 icons)
240-2496.8% (5379 icons)
2504.4% (3500 icons)
Total:100.0% (79559.5 icons)


There are some really interesting things in there. For example, the number of icons used by the people in the 220-229 group is only just over the number of icons used by the entirety of the 0-9 group, yet the 190-199 group is using over four times that amount.

Of course, this data is based on seed accounts only, and according to your data there are only 1085 of those. This won't be anywhere close to the 'normal' activity on the site, I suspect. (This part mainly put in for the benefit of other people seeing this post.)

I'm not sure what this means precisely, but I found it interesting enough to share :D
Edited (Adding reminder that this is for seed accounts only.) 2012-02-14 06:34 (UTC)
green_knight: (Happy Penguin)

[personal profile] green_knight 2012-02-14 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
My guess is that since LJ has ca. 200 icon slots, the people who were maxed out there imported them to DW but didn't add more.

(I leave a few slots in case I have a burning desire to add a new icon without having to delete one right there and then.)
eien_herrison: Twilight Sparkle (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic) looking at the moon with it reflected in her pupil (Twilight Moon)

[personal profile] eien_herrison 2012-03-17 09:44 am (UTC)(link)
For me, I'm one of the 1372 using between 20 and 29 icons -- coming from LJ where I only have a maximum of 15, 250 seems like an immense number. I add, delete, chop, change, decide I don't like an icon any more/am not interested in the fandom/canon behind it. I do have a couple more icons that I should copy over, which will move me in to the next number band.

(I mainly got a seed account to support DW than any over-interest in the addional features, but having a variety of icons and the random icon button is nice for me :))
tameiki: (Default)

[personal profile] tameiki 2012-03-18 04:02 am (UTC)(link)
Every time somebody says something like this, it gives me such a warm fuzzy feeling, you have no idea.

I, too, bought a seed account because I believe in Dreamwidth. You've proven time and again that you're trustworthy, have integrity, look out for your userbase, and truly value your "customers". That, and the transparency in what you're doing all make one gorgeous package I couldn't resist! :)
sophie: A cartoon-like representation of a girl standing on a hill, with brown hair, blue eyes, a flowery top, and blue skirt. ☀ (Default)

[personal profile] sophie 2012-03-17 05:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Just to clarify, the 1372 figure refers to the estimated total number of icons used by the users in that group, not to the number of users in that group. The number of seed accounts in that group is 56, as indicated in Mark's post.

I'm personally one of the seeds with 0-9 icons, myself. (To be exact, I have 8 icons.)
Edited 2012-03-17 17:18 (UTC)
pauamma: Cartooney crab holding drink (Default)

[personal profile] pauamma 2012-03-18 06:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Am I misunderstanding, or do I have that right?
Unless Mark got the numbers wrong, you pretty much have to be right, since there can't be fewer accounts with 230 icons or more than accounts with 240 icons or more. :-)
lollobrigida: (Default)

[personal profile] lollobrigida 2012-03-21 10:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I know I did my seed account and was pretty close to maxed out at the time with 175 icons, but I paid for it to support the community when it was starting, but I haven't even changed icons over on LJ when I have a perm account there too. I have loyalty slots stacking up and everything, but I just don't use it as often as I use my RP accounts.
copracat: Teyla and Ronon smililng at each other (atlantis - sisters)

[personal profile] copracat 2012-02-14 02:24 am (UTC)(link)
This seed account has carefully not maxed out icons (215 of 250) just in case that was all I'd ever have. It's been comforting to know that I could add an icon without deleting an icon, but it means I have been quite frugal about adding new icons

I would totes give you more money for more icons, of course, and I would fill my current slots if I knew that 250 wasn't my limit.

(I love the 'random icon' button ever so much.)
ivorygates: (1. STARGATE: GATE: IVORYGATE ivorygate b)

[personal profile] ivorygates 2012-02-14 05:51 am (UTC)(link)
As [personal profile] copracat says below, I would if that wasn't all I had. I'm totally up for moar...

(Say, another 250?)